Talk:Q241045

Autodescription — bust (Q241045)

description: sculpture of the upper part (head, neck, and a variable portion of chest and shoulders)

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Classification of the class bust (Q241045)   

For help about classification, see Wikidata:Classification.

Parent classes (classes of items which contain this one item)

• bust (Q241045)
  • portrait sculpture (Q28777669)
    • portrait (Q134307)
      • image (Q478798)
        • artificial object (Q16686448) ^(@)→
        • two-dimensional object (Q118870638)
          • geometric object (Q123410745) ^(+)→
          • two-dimensional region (Q123411575)
            • two-dimensional domain (Q130249874)
              • domain (Q11235244)
                • open set (Q213363)
                  • Gδ set (Q127244)
                    • subset (Q177646) ^…
                • connected space (Q1491995)
                  • topological space (Q179899)
                    • mathematical structure (Q748349) ^…
      • work (Q386724) ^(⁋)→
    • sculpture (Q860861)
      • artificial physical object (Q8205328)
        • physical object (Q223557)
          • concrete object (Q4406616)
            • object (Q488383) ^(#)→
            • individual item (Q132907471)
              • entity (Q35120) ⊸
            • material entity (Q53617407) ^(¶)→
          • ^→(¶) material entity (Q53617407)
            • independent continuant (Q53617489)
              • ^→(§) continuant (Q103940464)
                • entity (BFO) (Q136433660) ^…
        • artificial object (Q16686448) ^(@)→
        • work (Q386724) ^(⁋)→
      • visual artwork (Q4502142)
        • work of art (Q838948)
          • ^→(@) artificial object (Q16686448)
            • object (Q488383) ^(#)→
          • creative work (Q17537576) ^(†)→
        • visual work (Q110910970)
          • ^→(⁋) work (Q386724)
            • artificial object (Q16686448) ^(@)→
      • three-dimensional object (Q35459920)
        • ^→(+) geometric object (Q123410745)
          • mathematical object (Q246672)
            • object (Q488383) ^(#)→
            • mathematical concept (Q24034552) ^(●)→
            • information content entity (Q141152439) ^(¤)→
          • geometric concept (Q21550639)
            • ^→(●) mathematical concept (Q24034552)
              • concept (Q151885)
                • abstract entity (Q7048977)
                  • entity (Q35120) ⊸
                • representation (Q1272626)
                  • sign (Q3695082) ^…
                • social object (Q7551287)
                  • abstract object (Q123139280) ^…
          • ^→(¤) information content entity (Q141152439)
            • object (Q488383) ^(#)→
            • generically dependent continuant (Q123240747)
              • continuant (Q103940464) ^(§)→
              • generically dependent entity (Q141214978)
                • dependent entity (Q141205897) ^…
        • ^→(#) object (Q488383)
          • entity (Q35120) ⊸
      • ^→(†) creative work (Q17537576)
        • intellectual work (Q15621286)
          • work (Q386724) ^(⁋)→

Subclasses (classes which contain special kinds of items of this class)

⟨bust⟩ on wikidata tree visualisation (external tool)(depth=1) — on Wikidata Graph Builder ; depth= [1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 10 ]

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See also

• This documentation is generated using {{Item documentation}}.

not a drawing or painting

I reduced the English description to contain only three-dimensional sculptures, not two-dimensional drawings or paintings, as matching the "subclass of a sculpture" and matching the English lemma. -- Gerd Fahrenhorst (talk) 08:12, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately User:GiovanniPen ruined this distinction by merging bust (Q241045) with bust (Q17489160). This merge should be reverted and the distinction between two- and three-dimensional works be clarified. /ℇsquilo 08:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

i'm sorry for the mistake/mix-up, ofc the merge can be retrieved. @Gerd Fahrenhorst wrote on my talk page.

i merged the item because they were ambiguous in description and in instance of (P31) GiovanniPen (talk) 09:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

imho, if we decide to separate things again, maybe then it would be more correct to have three elements: bust (generic representation), as sculpture and as painting (both with the appropriate subclass of (P279) and so on) ? GiovanniPen (talk) 09:45, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

To make it more complicated, User:KrBot has already changed probably thousands of items (or: all) from Q17489160 to Q241045 (e.g. Rudolf Virchow memorial (Q113103790) which triggered me to look at the change). It makes no sense to re-install Q17489160 if there are no items referring to it. So we also have to undo the changes made by KrBot. -- Gerd Fahrenhorst (talk) 18:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

In addition, all wiki languages link to Q241045 and not to Q17489160. So I suggest we simply keep Q241045 as a subclass of sculpture ? -- Gerd Fahrenhorst (talk) 19:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

i agree with keep this item bust (Q241045) as subclass of sculpture.

instead of undo the changes made by the bot, it could be easier to change any possible portrait (less than the 3d statue/bust) with a new item (if we decide to create a separate one) of 2d drawings/painting of the upper part of a human body.

if the intention is to have two separate items, then we could also delete any ambiguous alternative definition in this element, clarifying everything. GiovanniPen (talk) 19:30, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

according to the last version before merging the item was already ambiguous: while the title was

portrait at bust length (imho absolutely unclear) english Description says "in picture or sculpture"; the same for spanish "representación escultórica o pictórica".

property instance of (P31) had sculpture (Q860861) too, there was partially coincident with (P1382) but also subclass of (P279) both referring to the item i merged (bust (Q17489160))... GiovanniPen (talk) 20:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

So since the English and spanish descriptions are already changed: Should we now end the discussion and keep the current definition? -- Gerd Fahrenhorst (talk) 14:41, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Generic, sculpture, portrait or what? GiovanniPen (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Sculpture. -- Gerd Fahrenhorst (talk) 15:08, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

item to use for bust painting?

I've seen the discussion here, but I can't seem to find a distinct item to use for describing a painted bust. The Getty AAT definitions linked in the identifiers on this item imply that this item still corresponds to BOTH sculpture bust and the more generic bustː

• https://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=&logic=AND&note=&subjectid=300417950 (sculpture)
• https://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=&logic=AND&note=&subjectid=300047457 (artistic representation of head and shoulders)

I'm trying to model an item that features a painted bust. Can someone advise on the appropriate item to use? @GiovanniPen: @Gerd Fahrenhorst: Ahc84 (talk) 15:28, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

already existing portrait at bust length (Q125951363) GiovanniPen (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2025 (UTC)